Comments on: No Thanks, Turkey Day

By: Edward

Edward — Wed, 28 Apr 2010 02:05:22 +0000

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By: Lauren

Lauren — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 20:49:52 +0000

A society that treats its animals the way ours does can never have peace.

By: kiki felix

kiki felix — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 22:19:13 +0000

Thank you Josh for this post. I feel so sad and ashamed that we treat our beloved animals this way. No turkey for me this year. Just thankful to know the truth.
-Kiki

By: Emilicious

Emilicious — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 15:37:05 +0000

Thank you for the beautifully written reminder Josh!!

By: Maria (Tough Cookie)

Maria (Tough Cookie) — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 20:05:27 +0000

GREAT POST! Linking to it all over the place!

By: Rachel

Rachel — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 00:14:53 +0000

Yeah Josh love that you went to school in Syracuse! Much love from the 315!

By: The Discerning Brute AKA Joshua Katcher

The Discerning Brute AKA Joshua Katcher — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:59:28 +0000

Sarah, I can certainly understand your perspective, and not wanting to cause waves during the holidays. A few things came to mind when you said this. One was, imagine if people always said that about social justice issues? We sort of have to make waves (and I can be done respectfully) particularly in those environments where the pepe we care about are around us.

In in all due respect, your equation of “putting our differences aside” takes into consideration all the perspectives aside from the crucial one: that of the Turkey.

We tend not to validate the animals’ perspectives, and instead we talk about “you and your perspective” vs “me and my perspective” as if they were the only two that matter. Imagine saying to someone “I’ll respect that you don’t beat your kid if you respect that I do”. See the problem? The kid is left out of the equation, yet he is the one who has to endure with his body the choices of others.

It is completely true that we can’t force people to become more aware or enlightened, but we can certainly make valid and logical points, provide evidence, and demand the respect for animals whose cries and attempts at escape are not seen as valid forms of communication or dissent.

When I told my parents that “It’s me or the Turkey” we had a turkey-less thanksgiving and still had an amazing time. It may turn out that the family would rather have you than the Turkey, or in some cases, you’ll be shocked to see the persistence of tradition. In any event, “the holidays” are no excuse to let institutionalized cruelty persist. If we don’t make our own waves, the invisivble waves of “business as usual” will persist.

We must talk about it.

By: sarah

sarah — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:20:37 +0000

Becca & Joshua, thank you for pointing that out connection! Sometimes I forget about that – that usually ppl with a lot of compassion for animals are those that have a lot of compassion for other people. However, it’s just never talked about and so sometimes I feel like it’s ‘overlooked’.
My family are wonderful, kind, generous people and just b/c they don’t live a vegetarian lifestyle, I’m not going to cause an argument. I think that especially at holidays we need to put our differences aside to be just loving and caring for everyone and accept the fact that not everyone is going to be a vegan or vegetarian etc… Just b/c I don’t agree doesn’t mean that I’m going to not spend time with my family just b/c some of them eat meat. Everyone grows and realizes things in their own time and you can’t “force” someone to become more “aware” or “enlightened”.

By: The Discerning Brute AKA Joshua Katcher

The Discerning Brute AKA Joshua Katcher — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:38:31 +0000

Becca, thank you for your thoughtful and honest response. I agree that compassion is not exclusive and most of the people I know who care about animals are the same people fighting for social justice and human rights, too. It’s not a coincidence that environmentalism, animal rights, and social justice are interconnected.

I would, however, like to openly and LOUDLY dispel the myth that “free range”, “organic”, “natural”, and “grass fed” labeling on animal products does not mean they are treated much better. They are all sent to the same slaughterhouses and I would highly recommend checking this website out:
http://www.humanemyth.org/

I hope everyone has an amazing and delicious holiday where nobody gets hurt!

By: Elizabeth

Elizabeth — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:48:14 +0000

Thank you for this! We are having a Celebration Roast this year, too! :)